Gunformation Forum

Cape Times :: Handing in of firearm

Author: coenvanwyk
Subject: Handing in of firearm
Posted: Mon, 2010-03-15 10:32 (GMT 2)
Topic Replies: 0

What can a person do if he had not handed in his licensed firearm? Can it be handed to a dealer while launching (afresh) an application for a licence? What is such a person to do?

General - Algemeen :: RE: Cost of FCA?

Author: crimefree
Posted: Sat, 2010-02-27 16:39 (GMT 2)
Topic Replies: 5

Rudie wrote:

I need some support in getting a bunch together to put pressure on the DA. Difficult to do it from thousands of miles away

Good luck with the new work Rudie, thanks for getting in contact again. You are certainly in an interesting line of work.

Any help I can offer is available. My suggestion is that you use the means you have available the internet. This is probably the best available means anyway. This website and Gunsite are your best options right now. Gunsite in SA not the US website is more active.

I'll send you a private message with my email address.

The DA is no different to any political party in any system in the world. If what you want, do or offer cannot be converted to votes it is not going to generate much interest. Funny haw so many simply cannot understand that is all any political party is interested in. They expect political parties to conform to their idea of norms and believe that political parties work for the good of all. They don't and could not care less. No law will change for the good of all, no law will be made for the good of all and nothing will be done for the good of all unless it can generate votes.

If political parties and government did anything for the good of all the first thing they would do is abolish themselves. Politics and governance is by nature designed to be corrupt. It cannot be anything else. If we have to work with a corrupt system then we had better understand how it works and how to fight established and indoctrinated values and beliefs. I wish I knew how.
_________________
"Two memorials remain today at Thermoplylae. Upon the modern one is engraved his response to Xerxes' demand that the Spartans lay down their arms. Leonidas' reply was two words, Molon Labe. 'Come and get them'."

General - Algemeen :: RE: Cost of FCA?

Author: Rudie
Posted: Sat, 2010-02-27 13:47 (GMT 2)
Topic Replies: 5

Hi Peter. Depends on what good work you are referring to. It is not the same as 10 years ago. I took a severance package, and is now officially an emeritus. Have been in humanitarian mine action now for 6 years. Now working on Armed Violence Reduction in Somaliland. It is the old British Somaliland, that is a unilaterally declared, internationally unrecognized republic in the north west of what is officially Somalia. Also note that I work in Armed VIOLENCE Reduction with the emphasis on violence. This is pioneer work, after some humanitarians started recognizing that the "burning of witches" still does not work. The agreement is that I will do this work as long as it is armed violence reduction. The moment it becomes "violent arms" reduction, I am out.

I need some support in getting a bunch together to put pressure on the DA. Difficult to do it from thousands of miles away

General - Algemeen :: RE: Where is the DA on gun control

Author: crimefree
Posted: Fri, 2010-02-26 22:08 (GMT 2)
Topic Replies: 5

Rudie wrote:

Crimefree, on the qoute beneath your post: "No man gives his weapons to anther man." - Unnamed Somali aqil (elder), Hargeisa, 2009.

As one ANC official put it about the time of the Goldstone commission report The ANC will never be disarmed by the NP government. And they never were.
_________________
"Two memorials remain today at Thermoplylae. Upon the modern one is engraved his response to Xerxes' demand that the Spartans lay down their arms. Leonidas' reply was two words, Molon Labe. 'Come and get them'."

General - Algemeen :: RE: Cost of FCA?

Author: crimefree
Posted: Fri, 2010-02-26 22:03 (GMT 2)
Topic Replies: 5

Rudie wrote:

Crimefree? Still PM from KZN? Yes, I was contemplating the option of prodding the DA to put that question. A bit of a tough time for me, but I will follow that up as soon as things calm down a bit.

The last time I checked, but who knows these days.

Better get a bunch to do the same as well. This kind of information is very useful in showing up the wasted effort costing innocent citizens lives.

Take a look at some of my work
http://www.richmarksentinel.com/rs_articles_contributors.asp?conid=13

You still doing the good work?
_________________
"Two memorials remain today at Thermoplylae. Upon the modern one is engraved his response to Xerxes' demand that the Spartans lay down their arms. Leonidas' reply was two words, Molon Labe. 'Come and get them'."

General - Algemeen :: RE: Where is the DA on gun control

Author: Rudie
Posted: Fri, 2010-02-26 17:55 (GMT 2)
Topic Replies: 5

Crimefree, on the qoute beneath your post: "No man gives his weapons to anther man." - Unnamed Somali aqil (elder), Hargeisa, 2009.

General - Algemeen :: RE: Cost of FCA?

Author: Rudie
Posted: Fri, 2010-02-26 17:45 (GMT 2)
Topic Replies: 5

Crimefree? Still PM from KZN? Yes, I was contemplating the option of prodding the DA to put that question. A bit of a tough time for me, but I will follow that up as soon as things calm down a bit.

General - Algemeen :: RE: Cost of FCA?

Author: crimefree
Subject: Re: Cost of FCA?
Posted: Fri, 2010-02-26 14:48 (GMT 2)
Topic Replies: 5

Rudie wrote:

Hi guys. Its been many years since I spoke to some of you. I just read Brett's post somewhere else on the Forum about the latest amnesty "fraud". Brett mentioned "billions" that the FCA has cost up to now. Does anybody have an approximate figure? I was wondering about it just the other day when I read in the media about the almost 3000 firearms lost by the police last year, and something like 7000 over the past few years. Could be useful to know when I get an innings for writing to a newspaper again.

Nobody will ever know until somebody demands an answer. You can bet any answer will be as fraudulent as the FCA. So check it and ask again. Just like the SAPS estimate of 217 million or so to implement the FCA. Then revised and again revised until the figure was 2.18 BILLION. It is still an under estimation.

Canada was no different. Politicians are experts at fooling the public. But if you don't ask you don't get anything "bad" from them. They are not fools either.

So how many are going to ask the DA to give an answer because unless asked via questions in Parliament the ANC will never give an answer.

I did and can prove it. But one request is.... you tell me.
_________________
"Two memorials remain today at Thermoplylae. Upon the modern one is engraved his response to Xerxes' demand that the Spartans lay down their arms. Leonidas' reply was two words, Molon Labe. 'Come and get them'."

General - Algemeen :: RE: Where is the DA on gun control

Author: crimefree
Posted: Fri, 2010-02-26 14:37 (GMT 2)
Topic Replies: 5

Curtix wrote:

Great!
I am from the US so the lines are a little clearer there, I was hoping as such here.
Thanks for the info!
I miss my guns!

It makes no difference where you are from. No political party will support what the public do not want.

While firearm owners or organisations in SA are not willing to flex any political muscle in order to help or influence a political party that is willing to show some support. Therefore the DA support comes mainly from their function as the official opposition. DA officials may vote any way they see fit on gun control and do.

The DA has no reason that will forward the objective of the organisation to support firearm ownership. Firearm owners think political parties will do this out of some really silly idea of protecting rights. Politicians don't give a damn about anybodies rights other than their own. All they want to do is win by any means possible and I don't care which political party it is or where it is. They will dump any "cause" faster than you can blink if it suites their purpose to win.

Make damn sure political parties do not want to dump you.
_________________
"Two memorials remain today at Thermoplylae. Upon the modern one is engraved his response to Xerxes' demand that the Spartans lay down their arms. Leonidas' reply was two words, Molon Labe. 'Come and get them'."

Licencing and re-licencing :: RE: An experience in getting a new license

Author: crimefree
Posted: Fri, 2010-02-26 14:20 (GMT 2)
Topic Replies: 17

jvr wrote:

Thanks for replying crimefree.

Hows your firearms reregistration going?

I have to deal with a collector organisation paralysed by fear. I have been waiting since June last year for them to approve my application which they saw no problem with until some clown on the committee told them Bothma was looking for a collector with 100 assault rifles. I don't own a single rifle but that makes no difference to them. I might be the guy..... But I'll add my problems are very minor in comparison to that of all firearm owners and the future of firearm ownership.

You have no idea of the fear and willingness of organisation management to make the police happy in order to save their own guns. Believe me this is going to ensure we have no chance unless firearm owners themselves step up to the plate and demand the FCA is fought.

But I gather most are living in la la land and think once they have a licence or application they will be safe because their organisation is not going to tell them the truth and they would rather deny that anyway.

So who is going to fight? Please tell me and what are they going to do? Win in the courts? Bankrupt government? Bring government to its knees?

I noticed you mentioned not one word of what I had written and that is the normal reaction I get. Are people just not interested and believe divine intervention will save them? Or simply willing to pretend it will never happen?

Something is very wrong and it needs fixing fast.
_________________
"Two memorials remain today at Thermoplylae. Upon the modern one is engraved his response to Xerxes' demand that the Spartans lay down their arms. Leonidas' reply was two words, Molon Labe. 'Come and get them'."

Licencing and re-licencing :: RE: New FireArm Application

Author: crimefree
Posted: Thu, 2010-02-25 12:45 (GMT 2)
Topic Replies: 31

Patrick wrote:

Crimefree, I cant disagree with anything you are saying. I am new to the Act and am here to find out why nothing has been done.

Isn�t it possible to get all of the Gun Associations/Groups/Collectors together to fight against this in the same way GFSA does? surely with all the members combined in these groups that pay monthly/yearly fees could contribute a percentage of that to wards propaganda and such things?

Couldn�t someone such SAGA organise a system where funding from all associations goes into this? This type of program could only be taken on by a dedicated pro firearms group with members that contribute in funding and assistance where possible.

Why can't we get all of us together to fight this?

Because nobody wants to. Nobody thinks it is worth the effort or their time. Why is the question?

Firearm organisations are run by enthusiastic amateurs. Well meaning but foolish and naive in the extreme to politics, propaganda and how to fight effectively.

If there was a single person who knew in any organisation they would have had the sense to have rung the alarm bell 40 years ago.

9 years ago this was tried and failed, a few years ago another attempt was made and failed. Now we have a government directed co-operation "to fix the FCA" of a number of organisations including GFSA to which not one firearm organisation which has shown a willingness to fight was invited or even knew what was happening. They are all appeasement organisations who have shown a willingness to work with the SAPS.

They will discuss what to give away in order to "win" with people who have no honour, have no compassion and have no respect not even for the lives they are willing to sacrifice in order to get what they want.

Why?

Because they are enthusiastic amateurs who are arrogant and foolish enough to think they know best. They will not listen to advice they believe is bullshit. They will not figure out why they have failed so far because they do not examine history or learn from it. Nor will they examine the oppositions strengths and weaknesses to see how they can turn this about or their own strengths and weakness.

It goes without saying that they are setting themselves up for failure but bullshitting everyone they are doing a great job. Change them or get rid of them or we are doomed.

They will sit and discuss how to promote firearm ownership to an ever decreasing number and not care one bit how many of their own members suffer or have guns ripped from their hands as long as they think the SAPS will show them favour because they are good boys and have complied with every request. Collectors management started a compulsory war chest for fighting legislation. Well you can guess who's guns they want to save.

Think I am crazy? SAHunters own survey showed 15% of their own members ADMITTED to not relicencing. SAHunters are now discussing with the SAPS to drop their case.

They have publicly with Collectors said "You had your chance, if you did not relicence, tough" - we don't care. SAGA said much the same. There are 900,000 waiting for that axe to fall. And we continue to bitch about delays and speeding up the FCA because we what to fix it. Where did that utterly stupid and irresponsible idea come from? From firearm organisations, not firearm owners.

SAGA and other organisations like SAhunt and collectors have just entered co-operative "negotiations" polite but incorrect with the SAPS as a member of an invited organisation which includes GFSA. Not one organisation that had ever shown opposition to the FCA was invited or even knew about it. Did SAGA, collectors, hunters or others complain or refuse to join - NO. Why? Because they don't want the nice apple cart they have built to save their own guns upset. I have been told that I am destroying any chance they have..... Yeah! right! I see it do others?

If you want to help - remember it is the members who control any organisation. If they don't ask they don't get. Who is asking, who is demanding because if they don't I can promise they will lose.

This is OUR fight and it cannot be subcontracted to those who don't care and have demonstrated they don't care. Make them care of remove them, they are no good for firearm owners survival. Better ensure they always care as well.

Go read March Magnum Trail Talk to get a small view of what is here.

My letter to magnum which will never be printed.

To: "letters" <mail>
Subject: Hegelian Dialectic
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:37:25 +0200

Dear Editor

Magnum March Trail Talk was a revelation in the subtleties of appeasement politics and the conniving tricks of the SAPS in trying to get firearm owners to back off. It�s the trap used to ensnare reasonable opposition. It's not going to work.

The SAPS have no intention of changing the FCA in any significant way and have said so and demonstrated this so many times it should be very apparent to anyone by now. The ideology of we can only talk to you if you agree with our point of view is pure Hegelian Dialectic, they are the
agent of change.

The simple answer is - prove your stance is valid and will reduce crime and the supply of guns to criminals as you claim and we are happy to talk to you on your terms. Until you do which you have not done we will not change our stance in the interests of all citizens safety and well-being.

As citizens with a deep concern for public safety we simply cannot condone the uninformed and potentially life threatening social experimentation government is conducting based on the pressure of single interest groups promoting hatred and fear of firearms. Nor will we agree to accept such conditions as the only avenue of negotiation.

xxxx
_________________
"Two memorials remain today at Thermoplylae. Upon the modern one is engraved his response to Xerxes' demand that the Spartans lay down their arms. Leonidas' reply was two words, Molon Labe. 'Come and get them'."

GOSA Press Releases :: 2010-02-17: ANC Paranoid about "threat to the state"

Author: GOSA
Subject: 2010-02-17: ANC Paranoid about "threat to the state&quo
Posted: Wed, 2010-02-17 09:53 (GMT 2)
Topic Replies: 0

Gun Owners of South Africa (GOSA) Press Release: 2010-02-17: ANC paranoid about "threat to the state".

Last week Police Minister Nathi Mthethwa told us that only the police should have firearms. Now government says that the private security industry's firearms are a threat to the state and should be further regulated. Government is also concerned that the security industry is bigger than SAPS and obviously sees that as a problem too.

The security industry has grown so big precisely because government has allowed crime to thrive and SAPS is incapable of controlling it.

But the truth is now out. Government (read ANC) is more concerned about some paranoid "threat to the state" than about the safety of citizens. Those who can afford armed response contracts should ask themselves what unarmed security guard will tackle armed criminals, and what their armed response contracts will then be worth.

We are already seeing increased attacks on the elderly. Disarming the security industry will amount to stripping the public of what little protection against violent criminals still exists. But that is true of government's entire disarmament policy.

Richard Boothroyd
Cell no: 082 592 8485
Exco Member

Gun Owners of South Africa
PO Box 2522
Clareinch
7740
South Africa

www.gunownerssa.org
_________________
What have YOU done for YOUR rights today?

General - Algemeen :: RE: Where is the DA on gun control

Author: Curtix
Posted: Tue, 2010-02-09 09:14 (GMT 2)
Topic Replies: 5

Great!
I am from the US so the lines are a little clearer there, I was hoping as such here.
Thanks for the info!
I miss my guns!
_________________
"To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it." G.K. Chesterton

General - Algemeen :: RE: Where is the DA on gun control

Author: Rudie
Subject: Where is the DA on gun control
Posted: Tue, 2010-02-09 09:03 (GMT 2)
Topic Replies: 5

Hi Curtix. Like all political parties, the DA does not stand anywhere. They stand where the bulk of the voters tell them to. I am working abroad for several years now, only being at home for short intervals every 2-3 months. I therefore am not that up to date with the latest. But in the past, the DA did take a pro stand when pressurized hard enough by voters.

General - Algemeen :: Letter to Beeld

Author: Rudie
Subject: Letter to Beeld
Posted: Tue, 2010-02-09 08:58 (GMT 2)
Topic Replies: 0

Net hulle moet wapens h�, is staat se mikpunt, Beeld 9 Februarie 2010 verwys.
Of die minister van polisie en die nasionale polisiehoof is twee regte grapjasse of hulle dink die publiek is so onnosel om hulle stories te glo.
Die eerste mite is dat die regering besig is om die �wettige �n onwettige vuurwapens in die land beduidend te verminder.� Die enigste vuurwapens wat die polisie besig is om �beduidend te verminder� is die vuurwapens in besit van wetsgehoorsame burgers, deur druk op die eienaars toe te pas. En hulle dan nog te bedrieg ook deur nie te betaal vir die vuurwapens wat hulle inhandig nie. Hou op om die belastingbetalers, wat julle salarisse betaal, te bedrieg deur voor te gee dat die polisie �onwettige vuurwapens beduidend� verminder.
Dit behoort maklik te wees om vir ons syfers te gee van hoeveel van die nagenoeg 90 000 vuurwapens wat hulle die afgelope paar weke vernietig het, gelisensieerde wapens is wat deur hul wettige eienaars ingehandig is, hoeveel nie-gelisensieerde vuurwapens is wat deur hul eienaars ingehandig is, en hoeveel daarvan ongelisensieerde vuurwapens is, in besit van misdadigers was en waaarop die polisie beslag gel� het.
Die tweede mite is dat die polisie so �n impak op onwettige vuurwapens in omloop maak dat misdadigers hulle nou toenemend tot messe wend. Maak die syfers bekend wat wys dat misdaad waarin vuurwapens gebruik word, afneem in verhouding met die toename in misdaad waarin messe gebruik word. Dit behoort mos maklik te wees om die stelling te staaf met syfers, in plaas van �n wilde stelling sonder bewyse.
Die derde mite is die implikasie dat die vuurwapens wat in misdaad gebruik word, van privaateienaars gesteel of geroof word. Waar is die ongeveer 7000 polisievuurwapens wat die afgelope drie jaar gesteel is, of �weggeraak� het. Kan die minister en die kommisaris vir ons die syfers bekend maak van hoeveel vuurwapens die afgelope drie jaar van wettige eienaars gesteel of geroof is?
Geagte minister en kommissaris, hou op om die publiek te bedrieg, maak die ware feite bekend, en erken dat julle beheer verloor het oor misdaad. Hou op om syfers te verdraai en te verswyg om die skyn te probeer voorhou dat die polisie suksesvol is in die bekamping van misdaad. Hou op wetsgehoorsame burgers af te dreig en te ontwapen, terwyl die polisie geen impak maak op vuurwapens in die hande van misdadigers nie. In �n vuurwapenvrye land is die enigste vuurwapens die in die hande van misdadigers.